Freezer vs. Fridge

[BREWsmith]

I'm debating between buying a chest freezer (with a temperature controller) and a refrigerator. The primary purpose of either will be for cold storage of kegs. Does using a temperature controller shorten the life of a freezer? All insights would be appreciated.

[john mills]

Our resident HVAC member, Don Heisler may be able to give you the best advice, but here is what I know.

Chest freezer is the way to go. Other than initial cost, I haven't heard of any negatives against using it. Here are the positives I know against getting a fridge instead of a freezer.
1. Freezers have heavier duty compressors thus lasting longer.
2. Freezers are built to maintain temps well past freezing, when actually all the coldest you need them to maintain would be 34 F. A fridge has to work hard just to maintain anything below 40 F.

Thus putting #1 & #2 together makes for a long lasting piece of equipment.

Using a temp controller will make the freezer or fridge last longer. (If you place the probe in a White Labs vial full of Vodka, and turn the freezer's built in controller to max). The built in controller on the freezer monitors air temp, not liquid temp, and will cycle the compressor on and off many times to maintain the set temp. With the new controller in place in the vial, it will cycle the compressor on only when the liquid changes temp. Just what you want. When the compressor cycles on, it will be on for a slightly longer amount of time, but will be off longer also. Liquid changes temp slower than air. The frequent starting is what shortens the compressor life. Just like a light bulb. If you turn it on and keep it on, it will last a long, long time.

[BREWsmith]

Our resident HVAC member, Don Heisler may be able to give you the best advice, but here is what I know.

Chest freezer is the way to go. Other than initial cost, I haven't heard of any negatives against using it. Here are the positives I know against getting a fridge instead of a freezer.
1. Freezers have heavier duty compressors thus lasting longer.
2. Freezers are built to maintain temps well past freezing, when actually all the coldest you need them to maintain would be 34 F. A fridge has to work hard just to maintain anything below 40 F.

Thus putting #1 & #2 together makes for a long lasting piece of equipment.

Using a temp controller will make the freezer or fridge last longer. (If you place the probe in a White Labs vial full of Vodka, and turn the freezer's built in controller to max). The built in controller on the freezer monitors air temp, not liquid temp, and will cycle the compressor on and off many times to maintain the set temp. With the new controller in place in the vial, it will cycle the compressor on only when the liquid changes temp. Just what you want. When the compressor cycles on, it will be on for a slightly longer amount of time, but will be off longer also. Liquid changes temp slower than air. The frequent starting is what shortens the compressor life. Just like a light bulb. If you turn it on and keep it on, it will last a long, long time.

Thanks. That's what I needed to know. I'll go ahead and order a temp controller and keep my eye out for a chest freezer. There had been a nice one on craigslist this morning, but, alas, it's been removed.

[Don]

What John said.....

The size will make a difference.
The fuller you keep a refrigerator or freezer the less it will run.

If you are only going to keep a couple of kegs don't get a 18 or 20 cf. unit.

drop me a line if you need any help.

I user Ranco controllers and get them for @$50.

I also tape the sensor to a full keg that way I don't run it off of the air.

Don

[msjulian]

I am in the kinda same boat...except I am looking for temp control for fermentation. After weeks of reading boards and listening to podcasts I decided to go with a fridge to ferment. I just picked up a Johnson Controls A419 120/240v controller because of the programmable delay feature to keep the compressor from cycling too fast. I was always under the impression that what kills compressors (at least ones made in the last 10 years) is cycling too quickly and running in cold temps (i.e. garage in Jan). We have gone through two freezers in 6 years @ Church and I was told by a service guy from Hampton that it was because the shed that it is in is not temp controlled and cold days are really hard on them.

I would think that for lagering the freezer would be the best option because of the temp range it is made to run in. The only thing to keep in mind is that in the summer you will most likely have moisture issues as it does not have any type of built in air circulation. I have seen some pretty moldy freezers that were kept above freezing temps.

All this being said I am new to the kegging part of home brewing and only speaking from my experiences using a fridge as a fridge and a deep freeze as a deep freeze.

Michael

PS..Still looking for a fridge so if any one knows of one available please drop me a line...
430-6841

[Don]

I am in the kinda same boat...except I am looking for temp control for fermentation. After weeks of reading boards and listening to podcasts I decided to go with a fridge to ferment. I just picked up a Johnson Controls A419 120/240v controller because of the programmable delay feature to keep the compressor from cycling too fast. I was always under the impression that what kills compressors (at least ones made in the last 10 years) is cycling too quickly and running in cold temps (i.e. garage in Jan). We have gone through two freezers in 6 years @ Church and I was told by a service guy from Hampton that it was because the shed that it is in is not temp controlled and cold days are really hard on them.

There aren't many residential refrigerator or freezers that are designed to run in cold temperature. The oils in the compressors are designed for inside use around 55degs. to 90degs. Yes and that will kill (or shorten) the life of most "residential" unit. I have changed many a compressor that either was run at too cold outside temp., or too low a voltage.
You can add a heater to the compressor.

I would think that for lagering the freezer would be the best option because of the temp range it is made to run in. The only thing to keep in mind is that in the summer you will most likely have moisture issues as it does not have any type of built in air circulation. I have seen some pretty moldy freezers that were kept above freezing temps.

Correct the best unit to larger in is a freezer (upright or chest).
You can add a drain tube in the bottom and catch the moisture in a bucket without a lot of work.

I lager in and old school type 4 cf. refrigerator and have modified the door so a 6 or 6.5 gal carboy fits. I also added a 12v. computer fan that runs and blows the cool air around inside the box anytime the compressor is running, as well as one that cools the condenser and compressor but only when the unit is calling for cooling. This also leave me with very little condensation when I'm lagering at 32degs for 4 to 6 weeks. And I use very little electric because it's a tight fit and once I get the temperature down to lagering stage (usually 4 to 6 degs a day) it doesn't run a whole lot (Yes I work at Vectren but have yet figured a way to get my power free).

All this being said I am new to the kegging part of home brewing and only speaking from my experiences using a fridge as a fridge and a deep freeze as a deep freeze.

Michael

PS..Still looking for a fridge so if any one knows of one available please drop me a line...
430-6841

I do have a large commercial milk dispenser that I will use as a fermenter when I have several carboys going at once.
My little refrigerator has room for a elect heat panel, I will add it when the temp drops to the low 60's in my shop. I just change my Ranco to heat mode.

Really there is no one way to do it. A lot of time it what you have a chance to get for the right price that dictates what you use, unless you have the $$$ to spend and as long as my son is in collage and flying a couple times a week it will be what is the cheapest for me.

I traded a couple of 6 packs of beer for 2 commercial milk dispensers, and 1 case for my little refrigerator.

Get what you want, you can make it work.
Give me a holler if you need any help.
(End of rant)
Don

[BREWsmith]

I'm giving serious thought to moving the fermentation process to the garage. The conical's too tall to fit in the pantry and carrying it down the stairs gives me nightmares. I also need more capacity for cooling kegs. Right now I'm limited to two. I believe John Mills mentioned using a side by side refrigerator with a temperature controller for one side and a light bulb to provide heat in the other side. I'm trying to get my brain around this. Any advise would be appreciated.

[john mills]

I believe John Mills mentioned using a side by side refrigerator with a temperature controller for one side and a light bulb to provide heat in the other side. I'm trying to get my brain around this. Any advise would be appreciated.

I don't remember saying things to this sort, but with enough beer, I'm liable to say anything.
I think it would take more than a light bulb to heat one side of a side by side while it is operating. No problem if it's not plugged in though. If you have a dual compressor type like Samsung it might be possible then.

In the winter in an unheated garage brewing ales, you would need a heat source to maintain the right temps. Opposite for the summer.

[BREWsmith]

I believe John Mills mentioned using a side by side refrigerator with a temperature controller for one side and a light bulb to provide heat in the other side. I'm trying to get my brain around this. Any advise would be appreciated.

I don't remember saying things to this sort, but with enough beer, I'm liable to say anything.
I think it would take more than a light bulb to heat one side of a side by side while it is operating. No problem if it's not plugged in though. If you have a dual compressor type like Samsung it might be possible then.

In the winter in an unheated garage brewing ales, you would need a heat source to maintain the right temps. Opposite for the summer.

Sorry. I must of had beer in my ears. With that said, if the temperature controller was used on the freezer side to maintain refrigeration temp (~40f), what temp range would the refrigerator side maintain assuming no effect from the ambient temperature?

[Don]

If you operate a side-by-side with a temp probe in the freezer side, the referagerator side will be about the same, maybe a couple of degs warmer.
To make it short, they are designed to operate by controlling the temp from the refrigerator side. All of the cooling is done in the freezer side, and passes through to the refrigerator side with a fan through 2 small openings (that you open or restrict depending how cool you want the freezer side).

So if you are going to control this just from the freezer side the refrigerator side will pretty much balance out to the freezer side.
You can lager in the freezer side and add a plate heater in the refrigerator side to maintain ale temps.
I've done something simular to this before.
Set my big fermenter to 32 degs then built a box and put in in one side and used a heater to get it up to 62.
(Vectren loved me for this little project....)

[BREWsmith]

So, what you're saying is "get two fridges, dumbass".

[john mills]

Get nothing and brew seasonally.
Lager- winter
ales - spring and fall
Belgian & French - summer.

[Don]

Do what’s right for you.

I try to brew lagers only in the winter, my shop is @62-64 degs in the winter and I can keep my ales just sitting on the counter (turning on an electrical heater once in a great while) while my lagers tie up my refrigerator. On the days it warms up I can use a cooler and add a couple gallons of water wrap a towel around the carboy and can drop as much as 8 degs without using ice. Adding ice adds more possibilities.

If you are only going to make an occasional lager don't spend a lot of time and money gearing up for it.
Build your system around what works for you.
And John has a good fix, brew to the season...

[Ritchie]

this Ritchie a new member:

i have (2) frigs in my pole barn and had some problems in them this winter.
i have a temp. controller in each of them, but to keep them warm during the winter i put in a heating pad about $10 each at the dollar store. i did not turn of the frig just i case it got to hot.

that was my solution. if anyone has a better one or cheaper let me know.

frig or frez supplies i am going to try to get a used form one of the local appliance stores (not the big box stores).

ritchie

[BM1]

i did not turn of the frig just i case it got to hot.

Good idea,in case it gets too warm,but I wonder if your heat pad might overwhelm the cooling capcity of your fridge.I don't know what size compressors you have.It might be worth the extra bucks to set those up with some dual range tstats that will turn on/off the appropriate application.you'll get much better temp control and not risk burning out your compressors.Also,if you get good,commercial quality controls make sure you have an option to set the differential to at least 6 degrees.Too tight on the differential won't be any more precise on the product temperature ( unless you're using thermisters in a thermowell ) and will cause your compressors to start and stop way more than they are designed for,wearing them out super fast.I have temperature swings in my chest freezer coversion of 15 - 16 deg.( 7 - 8 deg.either side of the set point but my product temperature stays constant exept for the 2nd & 3rd days of attenuation during which the wort temperature rises 2 - 3 deg,assuming that I'm getting an aggressive fermantation.But after that it stays right on and the unit rarely runs.
And yet more,stop me if I seem to babble on,fill as much empty space in your fridge as possible leaving only room for you fermenter to have good air circulation around it,preferably with some water jugs or the likes.The extra liquid will soak up heat during off cycles,take up space so your compressor doesn't have to work as hard ( refrigeration systems cool only the air in the fridge,the less empty space it has the less air it needs to cool)and also store heat for colder conditions helping out your heating pads when it's cold out there on the same principles.Such a set up would lower your operating costs and make your system much,much more efficient and trouble free. The thermostats would pay for themselves