Too long in primary?

Jim W · Post by **Jim W** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:14 pm

Just looking for some opinions here.
I left my Witbier in the primary for a month. Unfortunately, real life bit me in the ass last week. What can I expect because of this? I do not know if this helped or not, but I did turn the heat off in that room after two weeks. So it was probably sitting at 58-60 once it stopped fermenting.
Thanks.

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:35 am

Wits have yeast sediment in the bottle and suspended in the beer, with the yeast being a major flavor factor. Just guessing you will be fine. Let me know!

sirgiovanni · Post by **sirgiovanni** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:08 am

Usually secondary yeast from a bottle isn't a concern, and from what I learned with the wheat, is actually good.

But Primary sediment is said to leave much stronger off flavors and aromas. I imagine you'll just have to try it to find out for sure.

psfred · Post by **psfred** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:50 pm

You may be all right. Worst case will be serious yeast autolysis and the beer will taste rather like a smoldering rubber tire. If it's really bad, toss it, it's not going to improve in the bottle (which reminds me, I have some that needs to be used as a demonstration).

Just a couple weeks you will very likely be OK. A couple months might not be so good.

Peter

Chris Norrick · Post by **Chris Norrick** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:27 pm

I only use secondaries on very rare occasions so 2-3 weeks in primary is normal for me. I don't see an extra week or two being a problem, especially at the lower temp. You will not have yeast autolysis (breaking open or rupturing of the yeast cell followed by rotting of left over guts) in 4 weeks. It takes months. You may just get a slightly clearer than desired wit beer.

Dwayne_Delaney · Post by **Dwayne_Delaney** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:19 pm

I too have changed my brewing regimen to exclude a secondary fermentation with the exception of high-gravity beers that need the extra time(>6 weeks) in the fermenter.

If you remove the extra step of the secondary, you also remove the chance for oxidation and contamination during the transfer, which in my opinion, far outweighs the slight chance of developing yeast autolysis.

That is of course unless you own a conical.........CONICALS ROCK!

Just my 2

Jim W · Post by **Jim W** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:58 am

This is what I like so much about this board. When you ask a general question you get several answers with something to learn and help in each one. Even about heavy-metal emoticons!

I happen to like this one as sort of a Marshall Tucker/Little Feat/Allman Brothers jam band thing.
I have another question. You guys have thoroughly convinced me to blow off secondaries. Now, is that appropriate for lagering? I have that higher temp lager yeast (55-65) in the fermenter now, and I believe she is done doing her work. Should I secondary this lager? Should we create more emoticons with Rock Band roots, do we need to include other music genres?

I am thinking this one has the Steely Dan feel:

psfred · Post by **psfred** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:17 am

Jim:

You cannot lager on the primary yeast, it will autolyse and ruin the beer. You cannot properly lager anything without considerable residual fermentables and the proper yeast, either -- meaning extract beers won't lager (they will, however, sit nicely in a cold carboy doing nothing, though).

To lager a full mash beer, rack off the primary when the head falls into a perfectly sanitized carboy or key. Slowly lower the temperature to 35F or so (this is why you need a lagering yeast, it has to work at that temp) and let it work off the residual sugars over three or four months. This presumes a gravity at racking of at least 1/3 of the initial gravity -- if it's way down, lagering is just letting the beer sit, nothing is gonna happen in there! When the gravity is down to terminal, which takes a long time, re-pitch with a clean bottom fermenting yeast and bottle, or keg.

I can lend you Greg Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer" if you like, this is a rather complicated subject.

Most beers will benefit from some cold storage -- clears out the yeast, lets the yeast eat all the acetaldehyde and some of the esters from fermentation, and precipitates some of the excess bitterness, and may get rid of some chill haze. For ales, though, this is only a couple weeks. not traditional lagering.

Peter

Dwayne_Delaney · Post by **Dwayne_Delaney** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:40 pm

Now to make things perfectly murky on the subject:

From John Palmer's "How to Brew"
"Luckily, the propensity of yeast to autolyze is decreased by a decrease in activity and a decrease in total yeast mass. What this means to a brewer is that racking to a secondary fermenter to get the beer off the dead yeast and lowering the temperature for the long cold storage allows the beer to condition without much risk of autolysis. At a minimum, a beer that has experienced autolysis will have a burnt rubber taste and smell and will probably be undrinkable. At worst it will be unapproachable.
As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis. Autolysis is not inevitable, but it is lurking."
www.howtobrew.com

Sounds to me kind of like the Boogie man.

john mills · Post by **john mills** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:59 pm

I have used secondary transfers to allow another new batch to be brought into the beer world. I generally rack off of primary after a week or 2 when I've brewed another batch and need some yeast. I'll rack from primary, swirl the leavins (to use my favorite Al Bundy word) in the primary, then dump into a clean carboy just before I add the new wort to it. I'll continue the primary, new beer cycle for about 4 generations before I pitch the yeast and start fresh again. That is unless I split the primary leavins the first time and put half in cold storage (capped in a sterilized beer bottle in the fridge). I'll bring it back to life just like any other yeast with a starter later. This method helps make the price of the liquid yeast more like it's dry counterparts.