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Hey,Sky.Here's one to review.I want a Brown Ale kinda' beer but I also want a lot of hop charactor like an IPA type of brew.Tell me what you think.

5th Avenue Brown Nail

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.80 Wort Size (Gal): 5.80
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.13
Anticipated OG: 1.0455 Plato: 11.308
Anticipated SRM: 23.8
Anticipated IBU: 48.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 6.82 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.0386 SG 9.66 Plato

Formulas Used
------------
Color Formula Used: Mosher
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.19

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
79.0 8.00 lbs. Vienna Malt Canada 1.0360 4
19.8 2.00 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.0300 150
1.2 0.13 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 1.0290 300

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
36.00 g. Amarillo Pellet 8.28 34.8 60 min.
21.00 g. Willamette Pellet 3.71 8.0 40 min.
14.00 g. Willamette Pellet 3.71 3.7 20 min.
28.00 g. Willamette Pellet 3.71 2.4 5 min.
28.00 g. Willamette Pellet 3.71 0.0 0 min.

Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Unit(s) Zinc Other 5 Days(boil)
1.00 Unit(s) B-Complex Other 0 Min.(boil)
12.00 Oz Chocolate Malt 300L Other 0 Min.(boil)
1.00 Tbsp PH 5.2 Stablizer Other 60 Min.(mash)
1.00 Unit(s) Wirlflock Fining 15 Min.(boil)
6.00 Tsp Yeast Nutrient Other 0 Min.(boil)

Yeast
-----
Coopers Coopers 15 gm

Mash Schedule
-------------
Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs: 10.13
Total Water Qts: 10.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 2.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 72.00 F

Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse
Step Time Temp Temp Type Temp Quarts
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mash In 50 147 145 Infuse 162 10.00
Alpha 20 147 147 Infuse 149 12.02


Total Water Qts: 22.02 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 5.51 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 6.32 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.

Sparge and total water not listed.

Wow, super unique recipe Steve!


So lets start by reviewing the style..

you said you want a Brown Ale kinda' beer but also want a lot of hop charactor like an IPA

This sounds like an American Brown Ale to me would fit the style.
10C. American Brown Ale
Aroma: Malty, sweet and rich, which often has a chocolate, caramel, nutty and/or toasty quality. Hop aroma is typically low to moderate. Some interpretations of the style may feature a stronger hop aroma, a citrusy American hop character, and/or a fresh dry-hopped aroma (all are optional). Fruity esters are moderate to very low. The dark malt character is more robust than other brown ales, yet stops short of being overly porter-like. The malt and hops are generally balanced. Moderately low to no diacetyl.

Appearance: Light to very dark brown color. Clear. Low to moderate off-white to light tan head.

Flavor: Medium to high malty flavor (often with caramel, toasty and/or chocolate flavors), with medium to medium-high bitterness. The medium to medium-dry finish provides an aftertaste having both malt and hops. Hop flavor can be light to moderate, and may optionally have a citrusy character. Very low to moderate fruity esters. Moderately low to no diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium to medium-full body. More bitter versions may have a dry, resiny impression. Moderate to moderately high carbonation. Stronger versions may have some alcohol warmth in the finish.

Overall Impression: Can be considered a bigger, maltier, hoppier interpretation of Northern English brown ale or a hoppier, less malty Brown Porter, often including the citrus-accented hop presence that is characteristic of American hop varieties.

Comments: A strongly flavored, hoppy brown beer, originated by American home brewers. Related to American Pale and American Amber Ales, although with more of a caramel and chocolate character, which tends to balance the hop bitterness and finish. Most commercial American Browns are not as aggressive as the original homebrewed versions, and some modern craft brewed examples. IPA-strength brown ales should be entered in the Specialty Beer category (23).

Ingredients: Well-modified pale malt, either American or Continental, plus crystal and darker malts should complete the malt bill. American hops are typical, but UK or noble hops can also be used. Moderate carbonate water would appropriately balance the dark malt acidity.

Vital Statistics: OG: 1.045 – 1.060
IBUs: 20 – 40 FG: 1.010 – 1.016
SRM: 18 – 35 ABV: 4.3 – 6.2%




For your recipe you have color set at 23 SRM, IBU at 49~ and OG at 1045

Based on the style guidelines it may be slightly too bitter. Im assuming you want some malt to come through which is why you are doing a brown ale and not something lighter so I would suggest reducing the bittering hops.

Next we want to look at the malt bill.

For your base malt I show you have chosen to use Vienna Malt. If we look at the malt chart it says Vienna Malt is typically used in Marzens and Octoberfests which are German Lagers.. If we look at the BJCP style guidelines it says American Brown ales are typically brewed using 2 row as the base. Im assuming you are doing an ale but not 100% sure. For yeast it just says "coopers coopers".. For the coloring you are using Special B and Chocolate malt. Going back to the malt chart it says special B is Extreme caramel aroma and flavor. For dark Abbey beers and other dark beers. Again, not really a malt used for this style, with all the late addition aroma hops Im not sure the caramel aroma will come through. .13 lbs chocalate malt is such a minimal amount you might consider dropping it all together, bumping up the special B and adding some crystal 60L instead. Chocolate can be used for brown ales though. You also may want to add something for head retention like cara-pils or if you want to stick with the German Lager hyprid cara-munich

Next we look at the hops. I am having a little bit of trouble converting grams to ounces.
it looks like you have
1.26 oz amarillo @ 60min
.74 oz willamette @ 40min
.98 oz willamette @ 20min
.98 oz willamette @ 5min
.98 oz willamette @ 0min


I would suggest taking out the 40min boil of the williamette, that may get the IBU level down to where you want it, if not also taking amarillo down to 1oz could do it.

If we look at willamette on the hop chart in the handout it is a british hop typically used for ESB's and gives an earthy spicy fruity aroma much like fuggkle. Is that the flavor you are looking for or do you want something more like an IPA? If you want more of an IPA flavor you might want to use a different hop all together.


Hope that helps, that was fun for me! I'd like to see what someone else thinks!

Thank you,Sky.That does help a great deal.The inerpretation you rendered was exactly what I was looking for.My goal on this one is,however,to create something unique rather than to follow conventional guidelines.
Since,or about,my third or fourth brew session I realized that I was no good at following any sort of covention.I began forulating my own recipes without any notice of Style Guidelines.I made quite a few not so enjoyable beers before I got the hang of it.So,creative,unique and outside the box are my guidelines.Recenltly,I have been leanning towards brewing to style,but I'm hanging on to creativity as well.Adding a bit more chocolate is good.I had thought about that,too.As for the hops I think I'll keep the Willamette (love that flavor w/dark malts)and take your advice about dropping the 40 min.boil addition.Never liked that one anyway.I agree it would probably hinder the malt charactor.The Vienna Malt...I have ~ 40 lbs. and I need to use it up.It is a very rich malt and I have used it in Brown Ales before.It plays well with the Special B and just about anything I have put Vienna Malt into has been foam stable.I should also follow on the Carapils,good idea;they're good for any beer.
Anyway,I hope you're not offended by the idea that the beer's not on point to the BJCP thing.This post was intend to be a "Post Reply"on your 'Recipe Formultion' topic.Thank you for your advice,and your honesty.I may ask again.

PS. It is an ale,Willamette is the flavor I'm looking for.Coopers Dry Ale Yeast.I also want it to be very hoppy. I could brew a Brown Ale to style but it just wouldn't give me the same thrill.

Other opinions are also welcome.

That was a lot of fun for me! I appreciate your desire for creativity by not following any style guidelines.

The Brewers Association has also began publishing its own style guidelines which are much more loose and very different from the BJCP guidelines which can be a bit rigid sometimes. If your interested you can view them here:

http://www.brewersassociation.org/attac ... _FINAL.pdf

Let me know how it turns out!

Haven't done a recipe discussion in a while, here is a Roggenbier recipe I've been working on and plan to brew before the end of march, critique away please!


Sky's Roggenbier (RYE-nocerous)

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.94 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 6.24 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 4.25 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 17 Mar 2016
Brewer: SKY
Equipment: Pot and Cooler (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
Efficiency: 68.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.6 %

(Target: 1.054 SG)
(Target:16.8 IBUs)
(Target:16.2 SRMS)
(Target: 5.00 gal)
(EST ABV 5.7%)


Prepare for Brewing

Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 10.09 gal

Mash or Steep Grains

4.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 2.2 %
5 lbs Rye Malt (Briess) (3.7 SRM) Grain 2 44.2 %
2 lbs Pilsen (Dingemans) (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 17.7 %
2 lbs Wheat Malt (Muntons) (2.2 SRM) Grain 4 17.7 %
1 lbs Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 8.8 %
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 60L (Cargill) (60.0 SRM) Grain 6 4.4 %
5.0 oz Carafa Special II (Weyermann) (415.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.8 %
4.0 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 8 2.2 %

Mash Steps Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Acid Rest Add 25.82 qt of water at 96.8 F 95.0 F 45 min
Protein Rest Decoct 6.78 qt of mash and boil it 122.0 F 60 min
Saccharification Decoct 8.48 qt of mash and boil it 148.0 F 15 min
Saccharification Decoct 3.67 qt of mash and boil it 156.0 F 15 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min

Fly sparge with 3.64 gal water at 168.0 F

Add water to achieve boil volume of 7.94 gal
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.041 SG
Boil Ingredients Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [3.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 9 11.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [3.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 3.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [3.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 2.1 IBUs

Estimated Post Boil Vol: 6.24 gal and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.054 SG

1.0 pkg Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) [35.49 ml] Yeast 12 -


Fermentation
Primary Fermentation (4.00 days at 67.0 F ending at 67.0 F)
Secondary Fermentation (10.00 days at 67.0 F ending at 67.0 F)

(Estimate: 1.010 SG)
Carbonation: Keg with 12.54 PSI
Age beer for 30.00 days at 65.0 F

I will be brewing a NEIPA Saturday. Open invitation if anyone wants to observe. My kid has a birthday party to go to at 1pm so I will be starting very early.

Here is the recipe:

NEIPA
Specialty IPA (21 B)Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.38 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 6.25 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 4.25 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 16 Mar 2017
Brewer: SKY
Equipment: Pot and Cooler (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.4 %

Prepare for Brewing

Clean and Prepare Brewing Equipment
Total Water Needed: 9.98 gal


Mash or Steep Grains
10 lbs Pale Malt, 2-Row (Rahr) (1.8 SRM) Grain 1 66.7 %
2 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2 13.3 %
1 lbs Biscuit (Dingemans) (22.5 SRM) Grain 3 6.7 %
1 lbs Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM) Grain 4 6.7 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt (Muntons) (2.2 SRM) Grain 5 6.7 %

Mash Steps Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash @147 for 60min

Sparge Water:
Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.40gal, 4.09gal) of 168.0 F water

First Wort Hops
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 6 33.8 IBUs

Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.064 SG

Boil Ingredients
0.50 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 2.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 1.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.3 IBUs

Steeped Hops Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min Hop 11 6.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min Hop 12 3.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min Hop 14 8.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min Hop 15 9.1 IBUs

Estimated Post Boil Vol: 6.25 gal and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.078 SG
Cool and Transfer Wort

Fermentation Ingredients
1.0 pkg San Diego Super Yeast (White Labs #WLP090) Yeast 16 -

Measure Actual Original Gravity (Target: 1.078 SG)
Measure Actual Batch Volume (Target: 5.00 gal)

16 Mar 2017 - Primary Fermentation (14.00 days at 67.0 F ending at 67.0 F)


Dry Hop
0.50 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs

Sky your roggenbier looks good only thing I would change is your amount of rice hulls
Your 5 lbs rye malt , 2 pounds wheat and the flaked rye. All huskless are going to make a thick sticky mash even with the other malts.

my mashtun was like wet cement when I was done with that one! It tasted great though!

Didn't know you brewed it already. Yeah I bet was some thick stuff. I made the same mistake once too using rye malt. Mine was like 5w40 motor oil coming out the mash tun

It's understandable, looking at the dates it looks like that roggenbier post was exactly one day and one year ago!


I used a BIAB bag in my mashtun to unstick my mash. I was doing that for a while because it made for easy clean up and then I bent my thermometer probe

I didnt even notice the year lol must of had my brew goggles on

Sky. Hit me up when you're tapping into that NEIPA. Just brewed one on 3/14 that I split up between WY1968 and WY3522 and hit with a super heavy dose of whirlpool and dry hop additions. Curious to see how the hops translate compared to what you have going on. I've got a wheat version I'll bring to the meeting next week as well.


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It will be ready for the April meeting. I'd like to try yours, did you cold crash the fermentation at all? Interesting choice an yeast, any reason you picked those?

I did cold crash my wheat version. Still got the latest batch in the fermentor. I plan on cold crashing again. My approach has been to stick to my same methods and let what haze remains be there naturally, but I'd be curious to see what differences would exist by leaving more particles in suspension. Yeast choices were based partially on the fact that I had them, but mainly to play around with the style to see how different attenuation and flocculation levels affect the beer and to get a fruity profile from the 1968 and fruity/spice profile from the 3522. May not translate, but there's only one way to find out.


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