Cider/Perry 2011

[BREWsmith]

We have 17 topics having to do with cider, so I thought I'd start a fresh one.

My son and his fiance have asked me to brew the beer for their wedding next August. I'm very touched and psyched about it. Amy, bless her heart, loves craft beer. On the other hand, my son doesn't drink beer. He reallly likes cider though. So, I'm looking for A to Z advice on how to make cider. I've noticed that perry is also popular as is a hybrid of the two. Of course, once the beer and cider is made I'll have to figure out how to get it to Seattle, but that's for another day.

Let me start this thread by asking a few basic questions and we'll see where it goes from there.

Where can I get cider making ingredients? How long does it take to make?

Thanks for your input.

[john mills]

OVHA has had 2 yearly cider making events. First was in 2008, then in 2009. It was a lot of work harvesting, cleaning, grinding, pressing the apples, and then fermenting. Results were'nt bad. I might still have a couple of bottles from the 2009 batch. I added 4# sugar to increase alcohol to 11% ABV (more like an apple wine). Kegged & forced carbonated.
Basic regimen:5 gallons of cider.
Added 5 crushed campden tablets to sanitize the must from wild yeasts. Let sit for a couple of days loosely covered like a yeast starter to let the sulfer from the campden to air off a bit. Areated, added 1/2 tsp yeast nutrient, then pitched yeast. Let ferment. If you want a dry cider let ferment to completion. If you want sweeter cider stop fermentation with crushed campden tablets again, or let go to completion, campden to kill yeast, then sweeten with sugar to taste before kegging.
White Labs and Wyeast offer a cider yeast. I just think they are just a lower attenuating wine yeast. I don't see a problem with using Lalvin 71B1112.
I had a terrific cider that was just White Labs yeast pitched into a carboy, then placed in a 50 degree basement for 3 months. No other work.

Sourcing unpasturized cider is more difficult. I heard that Englebreght's in Newburgh would make unpasturized if 20 gal was ordered. If you wanted to check there and it's true, I'd be interested in at least 5 gallons.

[Dwayne_Delaney]

I have only made a few batches and I have never made what I consider a really good cider. To me, the cider always tastes better before it is fermented.

I have bought my cider from Walmart and it turned out OK. Just make sure that it has no preservatives.

Of course I made a couple of batches from the apples that we picked and pressed as a club. I always added extra sugar to bump up the alcohol but the cider always fermented out dry. I back-sweetened with concentrated apple juice after treating with Potassium Sorbate.

I have a batch of Cyser from last year that has aged pretty well. I resisted the urge to back-sweeten it so it is fairly dry. I bought my raw cider from Apple Hill Orchard just north of Vincennes on 41. It was some tasty stuff. I don't remember the exact price, but I remember it wasn't too expensive. I took the advice of several folks online and used SO-4 for the yeast and it worked pretty well. I used some honey to increase the alcohol a bit. I will bring some to the next meeting.

Cyser Recipe
• 3 gals. Cider
• 2 lb. honey
• 1 teaspoon acid blend
• 1 teaspoon pectic enzyme
• 1 teaspoon yeast nutrient
• 3 Campden Tablets
• 1 packet SO-4 yeast
Crush Campden tablets and dissolve in ½ cup cool water; add to fermenter. Add the cider, honey, acid blend, pectic enzyme and yeast nutrient. Stir thoroughly and let rest for 24 hours, then add yeast.

[BREWsmith]

Are Campden tablets the same as sulfite? In an interview with this year's NHC Cidermaker of the Year it was noted that he treated the cider with sulfite to control the wild yeast. After fermenting for a few months, is it best to keg it right away? Would it benefit from lagering?

Also, the number for Engelbrechts in Newburgh has been disconnected. I sent an e-mail to Joe Engelbrachts Fourth Generation Orchard on Petersburg Road to see if they had any unpasteurized.

[BREWsmith]

I found some unpasteurized cider from Farview Orchards north of Mt. Vernon. They have about 20-25 gallons available at present. If anyone else is interested, I will probably go by Saturday morning and bring it to next week's meeting?

[BREWsmith]

How much fermenter head space is needed for cider...the same as beer?

[Dwayne_Delaney]

I have been waiting for someone more informed to answer your questions, but here's what little I know......


Are Campden tablets the same as sulfite?
From Wikipedia: Campden tablets typically weigh 0.44 g each and 10 of these are equivalent to one level teaspoon of sodium metabisulfite. Other related substances are sodium/potassium sulfite/bisulfite. Further complicating the subject, each is also referred to interchangeably as --sulfites, and the 'bi' can be found as 'di'. In terms of usage, sodium thiosulfite is a closely related compound.


After fermenting for a few months, is it best to keg it right away?
That's what I have always done, but I'm not sure if it is best. I let my Cyser age in the keg with no carb for 6 months; just purged the oxygen with CO2.


Would it benefit from lagering?
Not sure. I have always aged at room temps.


How much fermenter head space is needed for cider...the same as beer?
My fermentations have been far less explosive than beer.

[Dutch]

I found that time was the key and clarity was the best indicator for bottling.
I post-sweetened mine with pretty good results.

[BREWsmith]

It's time to backsweeten and keg the cider. Should I use potassium sorbate alone or with campden tablets to retard the remaining yeast? How much of each for 5 gallons?

[john mills]

I used a campden tablets 1 tab/gallon. Waited a couple of days for the sulfer to dissipate, and back sweetened with the frozen concentrated apple juice. I chose the fcj to accentuate the apple flavor. I think I used 2-3 containers for 5 gallons.

[Michael Erwin]

You need potassium sorbate if you used a wine or champagne yeast, as they're not as susceptible to the sulfite in campden tablets. I think with a cider yeast you should be okay.