Trub or no Trub?

[BM1]

I brewed an Amber Ale(AG) yesterday and did something unusual.After chilling the wort I realized that my carboy was not ready,is had not been sanitized.I normaly rack to my bottling bucket for measuring volume and OG,also easier to load the carboy this way;so it sat for a while.Then I saw a spot of mildew in my fermenting cabinet (9 Cft.Frzr)so I cleaned and sanitized that also.Well,all this took about an hour or so .When I finally got to filling my carboy the wort was very clear as most of the break had precipitated.I'm wondering if this is good or bad .
Anybody know?

[john mills]

What just happened is what you want to do...leave the break behind; but ideally, to happen as quick as possible. Once the wort falls below 165 degrees F following boil is infection time. That's why one wants to cool, oxygenate, and inoculate (sounds like a Jesse Jackson speech) as soon as possible.
I've read that the break contains good proteins for yeast health. I've fermented without being able to tell the difference between leaving the entire break in there, and leaving out as much as possible. It all gets left behind of you secondary. (no argument wanting to start there, as some feel this is unnecessary).

[sirgiovanni]

You should do that every time. All the proteins that were great for your mash conversion are bad for your yeast cells and can also contribute to chill haze. Simply chilling it down and transfering immediately does not give your wort time to settle the bad stuff out. I'm usually ready to transfer after a half hour but there is definately nothing wrong with waiting an hour as long as you are holding in a sterile environment (your boil pot would be just that with a lid). Even if a stray yeast or bacteria found it's way in there while I wait, it doesn't have a chance once I pitch a large yeast starter in. I'm usually fermenting within 1 to 2 hours and they don't tolerate intruders.

[sirgiovanni]

When I say bad for yeast cells, I am referring to the reaction of creating more fussel alcohol.
a.k.a. Hangover

I believe what John is referring to is that you also unfortuanately floculate out a certain amount of zinc which is useful by the yeast to help prevent nutrients from binding to larger molecules, thereby make them unobtainable. I have started adding a zinc vitamin to my wort in the boil. My beer this weekend started at 1.102 and is fermenting like a mother so I don't think it is causing me a nutrient problem (although as I mentioned, I jack it up with a vitamin).

Other things to consider is that there are "opinions" that the cold break, if not removed, lead to unfaborable worty flavors and excessive hop bitterness. It is just generally considered to make a less clean beer. But as all things go, there are some that do and some that don't.

[BM1]

Wow!Thank you.And I did add a yeast nutrient(plain ol' white stuff from HBS).I was worried about rumors of needing some of the stuff in the break/junk for yest health,but my ciders seem to do great on just plain nutrient and energizers.
I would like to hear more 'bout that vitamin you mentioned since I probably bumbled upon a nice new (new to me)technique.I had CO2 production in 2.25 hours (record for me was 4.5hrs.)and my wort looks beautiful.
Too bad I couldn't slip on a cow pie and find a $10.00 bill getting up,huh?

[sirgiovanni]

Just crush half a B-Complex and half a zinc for 5 gallons and that will be more than enough. You can get them in bottles of 100 for about 6 bucks or so in the vitamin section. Therefore, 200 batches of beer.

The White Labs stuff has everything but it's so expensive and I just don't think you need it unless you have a questionable yeast. I just use the Wyeast nutrient with the B-complex and zinc pill addition.

Stir plate and proper pitch rates join the party for a quick turn and massive blow-off.

[john mills]

"massive blow off","join the party"... Sounds like a movie Pee Wee Herman could enjoy!

[sirgiovanni]

You're sick! But you make great beer so I must accept and love you.

[Chris Alvey]

Hmm, Jim, I wonder if you could source diammonium phosphate in quantity and mix that in too. I think you'd damn near have a product on your hands. Uncle Jimmy's Super Yeast Fuel ... or something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diammonium_phosphate

[sirgiovanni]

[john mills]

Thanks for the earlier correction Jimmy. I could have swore I heard/ read somewhere about complete trub removal removing some small chain proteins needed for better yeast health, but I haven't been able to find the source again. Could be something drempt in a drunken stupor in one of these past years.
I dud however find some good old reading material on the subject:

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/librar ... rchet.html
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/librar ... rchet.html

[sirgiovanni]

Hey bud, I wasn't trying to correct anything. Just looking at why you said that and assuming you were referring to the vitamin/mineral loss.

That 2nd article was kinda back and forth wasn't it? In the same paragraph he would say it was bad and then good. I wish he would have said the chemical reasoning behind CO2 statement with the high gravities.

Regardless, one thing is for sure. At least with our homebrew methods, it will be impossible to remove all the trub. Floculation will continue long past our best attempts to whirlpool and wait a half hour to an hour. Some things are just going to remain in suspension longer. Plus, when I drain it out, I always end up transferring a small bit out the bottom as sludge approaches the outlet valve. I still get chill haze for the first week or two after I keg. I shouldn't be drinking it yet anyway, I just have a patience problem.